Kupika.net

Kupika.net

 The official Kupika forum


Go Back   Kupika.net > Kupika > Stuff That Matters

Arcade FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply

 

Thread Tools
Old 07-03-2008   #1
Sanyu
Kupika Addict
 
Sanyu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 4,023
Default Reasons to use English properly

Why using English properly is important on an English speaking website:
(brace yourself. This is long)

Have any of you who are learning a language other than English decided to join a website that speaks that language to practise it? I am learning French, so I joined skyrock and netlog.fr to exercise my French usage and see how much work my understanding needs. I tried to strike up some conversations with the minimal French my very-new-to-French self knew - along with guesses aided by language forums and online translators - and messaged some native French speakers. Some of the replies I didn't fully understand, so I threw them into the wonderful world of online translatory to try and understand the words I didn't know, so I could understand them in future. What I found when I hit TRANSLATE was utter gibberish, and mostly still in the broken French I didn't understand in the first place. How could I understand that? I decided it was probably slang, as "svp" means "s'il vous plait" (please) and "stp" (one I didn't know) means "s'il tu plait", a more casual form of please. I wasn't familiar with this at the time but luckily I soon figured it out. I added "STP NE PARLE PAS EN SLANG A MOI!" to my profile and added that I natively speak English, and am new to learning French, but I rarely logged in anymore or replied to messages as I was discouraged. I joined Lyncheh's French Fans club here on kupika instead because kupika is an English speaking website, so if I didn't understand something it could be explained to me in words I understand, but French Fans is limited to its members, where skyrock was unlimited; the whole website was my Francais playground to frolick and practise in.

Kupika is also an unlimited website, where people from all types of backgrounds come to make penpals. Some you may have noticed don't speak English as their first language, and to them I raise my glass. They should truly be applauded and encouraged to further their bilingualism, or perhaps even multilingualism, but therein lies the problem. I alone cannot express my encouragement. My tolerance of bad English has been scarred by the generation that has been coined the "I Generation", the I standing for Internet. That is, the Generation after mine (the Y Generation) who were born in 1991-present and grew up surrounded by technology at every turn of a corner. It has become much of a normality for the I Gen to communicate with their friends via SMS and IM clients, so a language to quicken the pace to suit this modern society's speedy lifestyle was developed. I think this language has been coined "txt tlk", but there's a reason for that. On my very first Nokia cell phone, SMS' had a character limit. They wouldn't let your SMS span to more than one SMS at a time like the new ones do, so to save room these shortened words like "u" and "y" and "4" replaced longer words, and letters that weren't important to understanding the meaning you're trying to convey were omitted from the word entirely. People found it easy, so it carried on to IM clients as well, and eventually was normal everyday out-of-school use for the I Gen, even spreading to the Y and X Gens as normal online etiquette.

Now, referring back to my first point, and pulling points from a recent discussion on Kupi Beta, Why don't we have a high population of Europeans here on Kupika? Is it because the site is in all English? I don't think so, people speak English secondarily in Europe don't they? and Asian language natives SEEM to find their way here fine (though I doubt a lot of people claiming to speak Japanese know much - hell, it's on my profile that I speak it and I barely do), right? Perhaps they're having the same problem I had on skyrock, though. Maybe they can't get their heads around your gibberish when they don't understand it and stick it in their translator. Sure, as long as you understand what your friends are saying it might be fine, but it can be a whole new world of intimidating to someone trying their best to communicate only to see that their communication is wrong or perhaps seems too formal. Seeing this, if they do adjust to the way you type, you're giving them bad habits. If the non-native speaker is a student they would be marked down for their slang, not praised for their understanding of native speaker's modern culture.

I get into fights with people about their casual usage of bad English, and the response I get most that chills my blood and sends shivers down my spine is "im not in skool rite now it doesnt matter", but my gosh, honestly! If you think your teachers teach you these things in an attempt to torture you or make you conform to the rest of society against your wishes you are utterly mistaken, and I really don't see the point in typing like that. Your IM clients do not have a character limit; or, they do, but you're not paying more to hit Enter twice.

Language is the most essential form of communication known to man, and if you were born into the English speaking world I would consider you very lucky that you have a head start learning this language. It is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn, with so very many exceptions and rules. It's sad that though people learn about these exceptions and rules in school they completely ignore them, choosing to guess their way through out of school language tasks instead of knowing the simplest things. In fact, the Y generation has done terribly thanks to this language. I can't tell you how many of my friends from lower-high would mock the people who actually put thought into their learning instead of doing what's popular. And guess what? They can't spell now. They're all turning of-age and the ones I still talk to that weren't concerned with their learning cannot spell, and some can't even differentiate between contractions and words (they're/there/their, we're/were/where/wear, etc.). I see this becoming more than normal in the I Gen, and it is truly worrying. This may have even dampened these peoples' opportunities for certain types of work, and certainly don't allow their high school grades to say much for their overall enthusiasm. As money cannot buy some things, neither can grades, so if you do well in school, why do you slack off?

A member of our own has once stated that language and the proper spelling of words holds deep, old meaning and ties to old Latin or Greek words.
Oroborus21 says: 2 April 2008

A simplified spelling system is fine if you understand the words being used but what if you don't understand the words being used or they are new to you?

Without the full spelling you don't have any help to figure out the meaning, much less appreciate the deeper meaning of the word.

...........

E.g. the word Enthusiastic

A person might figure out that the words Enter, Entrance, have the same root EN meaning to go inside

and might know the words Theology or Theologian or might even know the Greek word Theos and understand it means God or Divine

And thus might be able to reach the literal meaning that Enthusiastic means for "God to enter inside" or for one to be "filled with holy spirit"

and then from that to arrive at the modern meaning of today is just a small step.
Though this method is probably a long detour, it still exists. This quote was in argument to the organisation discussed in this diary.

Another thing I will argue against is the original reason behind this language. It was made to be a faster substitute, but here I sometimes see myself typing my longer AND more grammatically efficient replies faster than your short replies. I haven't taken an official WPM test in a while, and some things have slowed my pace recently anyway (constantly switching between keyboards for example - my boyfriend's crazy separated one, my desktop and my laptop), but still I type faster. My nana is part of the "Digital Aliens" age (also called the Silent Generation, where digital technology is not concerned); the age of people who were not born or raised around digital technology. Televisions and then colour were huge developments in their post-war life. Most of these people don't use the new technology, those who do probably do so reluctantly. My nana is teaching herself how to use the computer, self-learning how to navigate a keyboard (believe it or not, the space bar isn't as obvious as it looks) and type. Her typing speed is less than 10 words per minute and she doesn't use shortcuts. Would your typing speed be this low if you were to include letters you normally miss and try to spell things properly? Would your typing speed decrease so drastically if you were to write "they're" instead of "there"? It's a total of two extra characters, and once you get into the habit of including these characters it's second nature, not to mention will make you look a lot more intelligent, meet a lot of people who are nice people underneath their grammar-nazi facade, let on a good, inviting impression to English newcomers, and possibly even open up opportunities for higher vocabulary, which means higher reading.


OK, and now, a ranty disclaimer:
You're probably reading this thinking "God, she's a hypocrite! She uses lolcat speak all the time," and yes, sometimes I do, unfortunately, but usually bad grammar is the core of my sarcasm, as you may notice if you go back and read those posts again. Lolcat speak is, surprisingly, a little bit different as well, but I feel bad about ever bringing it to such an underage community. Lolcats originated from a Japanese image board called 2chan, which now has an English language parallel. Most of the boards are 18+, being home to much pornographic material, and so I advise you not to take material from there so lightly. Like hina and his take on pedobear xD No!
But back on track, lolcats are pictures of cats captioned with grammatically incorrect phrases. Some are universal memes like "DO NOT WANT", but usually it's just very obvious bad spelling. This is chan and should stay on chan (or icanhascheeseburger). These websites aren't "traditional English"-friendly, but I believe Kupika is better than that. There is a line at which we draw differences between txt tlk and lolspeak. One is lazy, the other is purely mocking. I use the latter, and I don't expect anyone to understand it except the person I am aiming it to, which is different to messaging people at random to say "wanna b frendz" amongst much other broken English.
End ranty disclaimer.






tl;dr?

The length of an article titled "reasons to use English properly" should really be self-explanatory; there are lots of them.

I'm not saying you should be an A+ level high Literature student planning to take journalism as a major at college or university, I'm just saying that you should try and use the tools your parents pay for you to learn. It benefits everyone in the long run.
__________________
Forever wondering how the hell she amassed 4000 posts
Sanyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #2
Lyncheh
Kupika Addict
 
Lyncheh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,518
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

Thank goodness for this topic. I hope it reaches someone and they decide to type in a more intelligible way. I brought this up on a discussion on Kupika: I am a member of a language forum. Some of the grammar I have seen some of the English-speaking members use is shocking - on a language forum with many non-native speakers, for goodness sake! People truly need to slow down and stop wanting everything now. Today's society is obsessed with instant gratification. Will it really matter if you spend a singular second longer to type a message, to make it understandable?

Gah. Once again, thank you for this topic.
__________________
 
Lyncheh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #3
darkdreams
Kupikan
 
darkdreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 546
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

I detest text talk... kids these days typeing like they are on pot.
__________________
And when the stars are shining brightly <br />In the velvet sky, <br />I'll make a wish <br />Send it to heaven <br />Then make you want to cry..
darkdreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #4
Sanyu
Kupika Addict
 
Sanyu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 4,023
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

If I told you words ending in E drop the E when adding ING, would you remember it for future? :P
__________________
Forever wondering how the hell she amassed 4000 posts
Sanyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #5
darkdreams
Kupikan
 
darkdreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 546
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

Yes i allways make that mistake... Thank you ^_^
__________________
And when the stars are shining brightly <br />In the velvet sky, <br />I'll make a wish <br />Send it to heaven <br />Then make you want to cry..
darkdreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #6
CaptainKirsty
Kupikan
 
CaptainKirsty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 771
Send a message via MSN to CaptainKirsty
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

cool cool cool cool.

i will tayke diz in2 consideration

Thank you Sanyu ^_^
__________________
CaptainKirsty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #7
Denieru
Kupikan
 
Denieru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Beside the computer
Posts: 1,111
Send a message via MSN to Denieru
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

Thank-you for this topic! Hope it'll spread.
I don't use slang but here's an example:
"I thik u shod by 1 lolipop 4 me!"
__________________
I never use K-Net anymore. If I PM you or post something unwanted, it means I've been hacked. Kthxbai.
Denieru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #8
Zombie-Zee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

Sanyu, I thank you for this topic even though I know most young kupikans wouldn't dare read such a topic with long paragraphs and...paragraphs. At least this'll hopefully make a few of them think. I'm usually, like probably many, silently ranting and complaining about users who abuse the English language so much it turns into something quite horrible when it's their first language (excusing those who have a mental illness or a learning disability)! Bah, everyday I see people saying "no" instead of "know" sometimes even "now". I'm not so perfect at English myself, I know that, but at least I try to improve myself. Tell me I've made some mistakes in this post! I'll be happier knowing not to make the same mistake in the future. More English speaking kupikans (especially those above the age of 12) should be able to tell the difference between "there", "they're" and "their" and when to use them, when to use capital letters and not to "TyPe LiKe ThIs" which in reality isn't so cool and "pretty" and know when and where to put a full stop (or a period as some people are calling it).

"im not in skool rite now it doesnt matter",
This made me laugh. Someone actually said that? Well good luck to whoever did when they leave school permanently and enter the "adult world" where the English language is a vital tool to getting a good job.

A thought I've just had: Is the children themselves to be blamed for their bad grammar and punctuation or is it their parents not encouraging them to read, write and overall doing things that would improve their english writing during their toddler years, because I feel the reason why I feel that I love the English language and am not caught purposely mispelling words and just abusing the hell out of it (unless I'm making fun of those who do) is because I was embraced with reading books and story writing by my Dad since I was a year old. Your thoughts?

I've seen quite a few non-english members trying to embrace the English language on kupika or maybe try and find some new friends that share the same language and write their information on their profile in their native language. The responses I've seen them get are usually something like "RITE IN ENGLISH" and normally very aggresively (i.e adding swear words and insults) that I find really disrespectful and rude. We should be welcoming them with open arms! Not shoo-ing them away. They want to be apart of the English speaking world, yes? So we should help them be apart of it! Don't scream at them for writing their information in a language they don't understand. Tell them that it might be best to write it in english in a poilte way and if they say they struggle a little, Help Them!
That's enough from me.
Good Day.
xxx
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008   #9
Sanyu
Kupika Addict
 
Sanyu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 4,023
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

Originally Posted by Zombie-Zee
Tell me I've made some mistakes in this post! I'll be happier knowing not to make the same mistake in the future.
Originally Posted by Zombie-Zee
apart of the English speaking world, yes? So we should help them be apart of it!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apart?r=75
^_^
__________________
Forever wondering how the hell she amassed 4000 posts
Sanyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008   #10
sugartastic
Kupikan
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,745
Send a message via AIM to sugartastic
Default Re: Reasons to use English properly

Originally Posted by darkdreams
I detest text talk... kids these days typeing like they are on pot.
I think they are. O.o;

Anyway, good post. I like the disclaimer section where you explain the LOLcats to those who obviously don't understand the sarcasm or even what a LOLcat is. :3 People have taken me seriously, too, when I typed like that -- when it was pure mockery when I typed like that. Or just for fun. I'm glad you didn't give them a 4chan link or anything though, it'd be horrible if we were blamed for the childrens' exposure to such things like 4chan. @_@; (This whole paragraph will come back to bite me. Just watch.)

But yes. Good post. :3

brb mai red moon is comeing
__________________
- &lt;img src=&quot;http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l208/kittyLOLLIPOPx/puccaheart.jpg&quot;&gt; - <br /><br />&lt;img src=&quot;http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l208/kittyLOLLIPOPx/yeychii.png&quot;&gt;<br /><br />&lt;i&gt;and if i don't come back here<br />will you r e m e m b e r me?&lt;/i&gt;<br />
sugartastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads

Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
10 REASONS WHY GAY MARRIAGE IS WRONG by Jon Sanyu Random Discussion 18 11-30-2008 04:08 AM
Please write in English? Sharaku KupiChat 27 05-29-2008 11:46 PM
Blacklisting and disabled account reasons Rock Lee KupiChat 2 04-25-2008 05:02 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Content Relevant URLs by YABBSEO v1.1.